Talk:Masoud Barzani

Untitled

This page is a word-for-word copy of [1]. I'm not sure if the text is copyrighted or not. -- Goatasaur

Yes, I replaced it with an external link ( 17:57 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was close early. —Khoikhoi 00:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Mesud Barzani → Mesûd Barzanî – The correct spelling of his name in Kurdish is with the diacritics. I believe that not using them would essentially be misspelling his name. —Khoikhoi 05:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support. —Khoikhoi 05:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. The article should be at Massoud Barzani. -  AjaxSmack  07:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose I agree with AjaxSmack- it should be at Massoud Barzani. This is in line with the policy WP:NAME which says article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize I think this spelling is most commonly used by English-speakers, regardless of the Kurdish spelling. Just have a look at [2] at all the redirects if you want evidence! AndrewRT - Talk 22:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Ok...should I change it? —Khoikhoi 22:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose The usual spelling in English is Massoud Barzani. In Kurdish alphabet e is pronounced as a in cat, a likely source of confusion for English speakers, therefore it is better to stick with the English spelling.Heja Helweda 00:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

• Support The name should be Masoud Barzani, as this is the spelling the Kurdistan Region Presidency uses on its website, and President Barzani himslef signs English correspondece with this spelling. 159.255.160.88 (talk) 09:45, 16 February 2013 (UTC) KZibari

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Copyvio deleted

I have deleted the copyvio text and restored a clean version. --Aguerriero (talk) 22:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Move to Masoud Barzani

Both the spellings (Masoud and Massoud) are common in English texts. However, among these two, Masoud is more consistent with the original spelling. Also, in the official governmental website (www.krg.org), it's written as "Masoud". Jahangard 06:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Under WP:NAME we should use the name most commonly used in english, not necessarily the name that is most "correct". A google search shows 1567 hits for Massoud in news vs 19 hits for Masoud. Web search shows 29900 hits for Masoud vs 147000 hits for Massoud. This shows that Massoud is used most of the time and hence I suggest it is kept here. By all means mention the alt spelling in the introduction text. AndrewRT(Talk) 12:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I think when both spelings are common in English, the official spelling should take precedence. Jahangard 16:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Even WP:NAME doesn't suggest using the number of Google search results as the only criterion for chosing the spelling. Jahangard 16:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The official spelling should take precedence, just because their are more hits on an incorrect spelling does not mean it is right. It should be changed to Masoud.Csim125 (talk) 15:49, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Corruption and nepotism

The brief information I have added on this subject has repeatedly been removed. As an encyclopaedia, Wikipedia, must of course include information that is less than flattering about the subjects. Please do not remove again. If you have reservations about this information on Massoud Barzani, try rewriting instead.--Vindheim (talk) 18:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Correct spelling of his name in English

The correct spelling for the name is Masoud Barzani, with one 's' in the first name. But the article title includes two occurances of 's'. His official biogrpahy at www.krp.org/MasoudBarzani, spells it with one 's'.

I have tried to 'move' the article to rename it, but the request is not allowed.

Mustafa was a moslem

Masoud Barzani's uncle Mahmoud, the elder brother of Mulla Mustafa Barzani, is reported to have become a Christian convert in 1931. However no such claims have (afaIk) been made concerning the famous Mulla Mustafa.--Vindheim (talk) 21:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Mustafa Barzani's page should also be corrected accordingly. --CreazySuit (talk) 21:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

All Barzani Family in Iraq is Jewish not Muslim or Christian. You can look at Kurdish Jews — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eminonuk (talk • contribs) 14:30, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Gulf wars

This is confusing. The first Gulf war was the Iran-Iraq war. The second Gulf war was 1990, the Third Gulf War 2003. Please reference the wars by year (Gulf war 1990). It is confusing to read something happened in the "first Gulf war" and then read about air-interdiction zones enforced by the USA and UK (who did not participate in the first Gulf war). --141.70.81.136 (talk) 12:35, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Massoud Barzani045.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Massoud Barzani045.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests March 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Massoud Barzani045.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 18:20, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect external link

Under the External Links section, please update the Kurdistan Region Presidency website link to: http://krp.org/english/pdisplay.aspx?sm=oYjJbpqKulY= — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.255.160.88 (talk) 11:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Some suggestions

There is a serious error in here -- the KDP-PUK civil war did not begin in "December 1994". I was in Hawler (Erbil) in July of '94 and saw it happening myself. It actually started in May 1994. The wiki entry on the civil war has the correct start date -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdish_Civil_War

I would also like to offer a few suggestions:

1) Regarding spelling of the name, shouldn't we try to correct errors, no matter how popular, by indicating that the official spelling is Masoud? I've made this error (of two 's's instead of one) too many times in my own publications on the Kurds, and it's been pointed out to me that two s's indicate a stress that just doesn't exist in his name.

2) I suggest the following rewrite of the section on the "autonomous zone" -- as is, the description starts and stops at the wrong points in time, which will probably confuse people unfamiliar with the issue:

1st paragraph stays the same. After that, change to read: Just a few months after the creation of the autonomous zone, free elections (a first in Iraq) were held there in 1992. The vote split fairly evenly between the KDP and PUK. The two parties then agreed to divide all the posts of the new Kurdish government evenly between them, with a PUK vice-minister for every KDP minister and vice versa. In May 1994, however, fighting broke out between the Peshmerga of the PUK and of KDP (in a region subject to both international sanctions and Saddam Hussein's sanctions, resources were exceedingly scarce, and competition over what little was available probably helped spark the confrontation). Several armistice agreements were made and broken.

In the summer of 1996 Massoud Barzani called on the assistance of Saddam Hussein's regime to help him combat the PUK, which was receiving Iranian assistance. With the aid of the Iraqi army (some of whose Republican Guard units entered the Kurdish region for about 2 weeks' time), they drove the PUK over the border to Iran. The PUK eventually regrouped and with Iranian assistance retook Suleimani and parts of Hawler province. An end to the civil war was brokered in 1998 in the Washington Peace Accords, leaving the Kurdish zone divided between the two dominant parties; KDP in the Northwest and PUK in the Southeast.

From that time until 2003, there actually existed two parallel Kurdistan Regional Governments, with the KDP and PUK each running their own ministries headed by their own Minister of Interior, Prime Minister, Education Minister, and so forth. Gareth Stansfield [add citation to his 2003 book -- Iraqi Kurdistan: Political Development and Emergent Democracy, Routledge/Curzon, 2003] described the post-1998 status quo as actually beneficial, however, because it encouraged competition to deliver better governance in the two Kurdistan Regional Governments.

After 2003 the KDP and PUK embarked on an escalating series of efforts to reconcile their competing administrations, effectively creating a united Kurdish front in post-Saddam Iraq. Today all the ministries have been unified, as have Kurdistan's representation offices abroad (the KDP and PUK used to each run their own pseudo-embassies abroad). Although questions remain regarding the actual unification of especially the Ministry of Peshmerga (the equivalent of the Ministry of Defense in other countries), even this has officially been put under the command of the Kurdistan Regional Government and currently (2013) has a Minister from the PUK in charge, who answers directly to the Prime Minister (currently Nechirvan Barzani of the KDP).

3) The "criticism" section of the page looks problematic to me, given that Masoud Barzani is a living person. I just compared it to the page on Vladimir Putin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin) -- the critical language on Putin is much more careful (and the vast majority of the bio is much more full of praise for him, but that's a separate issue) and backed up by substantiated claims. On Masoud, I don't believe it's been proven that he personally owns much of anything. I would thus suggest changing the following sentences: "Massoud Barzani and his relatives allegedly control a large number of commercial enterprises in Kurdistan-Iraq, with a gross value of several billion US dollars. The family is routinely accused of corruption and nepotism by some Kurdish media as well as international observers including Michael Rubin. President Barzani on several occasions has denied involvement in any commercial enterprises." The change I would suggest is: "Members of the Barzani family allegedly control a large number of commercial enterprises in Iraqi Kurdistan, with a gross value of several billion dollars, although no evidence of such ownership by Masoud Barzani himself exists. While accusations of corruption against both the KDP-Barzanis and the PUK-Talabanis are often levied by both Kurdish sources and international observers like Michael Rubin [add the citation here], a lack of financial transparency in the region serves to both exacerbate the accusations and hamper efforts to find any evidence of malfeasance."

David Romano Thomas G. Strong Professor of Middle East Politics Missouri State University Author, The Kurdish Nationalist Movement (Cambridge University Press, 2006) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.202.176.147 (talk) 19:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi, the page is protected but it should be updated in the referendum section that he is no longer president and that it is now Nechirvan Barzani Timrosen (talk) 11:37, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Picture of Masoud Barzani

Masoud Barzani is known for his traditional clothing, it would be better to put a picture from him with his traditional clothing. --Alan Genco (talk) 15:55, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. EdJohnston (talk) 21:29, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

---

• Massoud Barzani → Masoud Barzani

– The first name in the title should be changed to Masoud for multiple reasons. The double s (as currently spelled incorrectly in the title) notates that Barzani's name should be pronounced with a "long s" sound in Kurdish/Arabic. However, that is not the correct way to pronounciate his name in the Kurdish/Arabic languages. When speaking his name in those languages it is spoken with a "short s." Writing the name in English as Massoud is an entirely different name in Kurdish/Arabic. For further reason that the name should be changed to Masoud, President Barzani's name English biography spells his first name as "Masoud" and not "Massoud" - http://krg.org/p/p.aspx?l=12&s=030000&r=316&p=226. Additionally, U.S. State Department use the spelling "Masoud" in the Secretary's published remarks and readouts. . Also,prominent U.S. news outlets spell his name "Masoud:" the Financial Times, , USA Today , and Foreign Policy Magazine Csim125 (talk) 21:09, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

References

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2016

Halgurd (talk) 23:23, 9 September 2016 (UTC) Since 19th of August 2015, Barzani's presidency tenure has legally ended and is a controversial topic among various Kurdish political parties. While KDP still considers him the President of the Kurdistan region of Iraq, other parties such PUK and Goran dispute this.http://www.iraqoilreport.com/news/barzani-remains-in-office-after-term-expires-16206/ [[3]]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. KGirlTrucker81 ^{huh? what I'm been doing} 17:39, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

PoB in the infobox

@SpikeballUnion: Responding to your edit summary, "it [Republic of Mahabad] was de facto where he was born; putting the historical state at the time is the standard on Wikipedia", I would like to emphasize that the city was Iranian territory at the time and Republic of Mahabad was an unrecognized state. You don't consider someone born in Raqqa in 2015, to be born in the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, do you? Pahlevun (talk) 18:16, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Fine, change it back if you will, but link to Pahlavi dynasty and not the Islamic Republic of Iran. SpikeballUnion (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2019

The first line of the article says "Kurdistan Region Region" when it should only say "Kurdistan Region". Zucker42 (talk) 00:03, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

 Already done by the time I got here. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 00:39, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Nationality and citizenship

Pahlevun, how else would you like to describe the nationality? See maybe also the article Nationality where the nations who do not have a country are described. He sure has the Iraqi citizenship, but he also belongs to the Kurdish nation. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:10, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: Please note that in this context, nationality is a legal term and should not be with mistaken with ethnicity. For example, a citizen of American Samoa is not a U.S. citizen, but is a U.S. national while a person born in an incorporated territory would be both a citizen and national. Pahlevun (talk) 20:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

No in this context it is not a legal term, as stated in the article nationality. Then also, we refer to a wikipedia article, which is also not really recommendable. What I mean is that the Kurds are of a nation who share similar traditions like language, dances or the form they dress etc. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:43, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

His presidency

Masoud Barzani Became President after the KRG gained autonomy in 1992 he became president on August 31st 1992 185.100.23.36 (talk) 14:51, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

After him

Between November 1, 2017 and June 10, 2019 the office of President of Kurdistan Region was vacant. Aminabzz (talk) 15:00, 4 November 2023 (UTC)