Talk:Friulian language

OFFICIAL/LEGAL STATUS OF FRIULIAN

It's false that friulian never acquired official/legal status: almost at this time, infact, Italy recognizes that language as MINORITY LANGUAGE (not only dialect) and gives to it a status of co-officiality in its historical area of diffusion. Friulian can be teached at school, can be used in writing (and have legal value), and can be used under judgment and in any contact with public issues.--87.18.231.68 (talk) 03:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Older topics

Friulian is indeed spoken by around 600,000 people in the region. Generally, it is spoken by Friulians and Slovenes. Friulians are usually bilingual - they speak Friulian, which is their native language, and Italian, which is the laguage of official communication. Slovenes are usually bilingual or trilingual - they speak Slovene as native language, Friulian as the language which prevails in the region they live in and Italian as official language. Boraczek 11:45, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The law, that I had not read but As I heard from news, give right to stay in judictial court and to perform administrative task in Friulan. It also give some other right I could not remember. I read the law now [1] school could (and if asked should) make some activity to give some notion of the language, In regional, provincial, municipal assempbly and some other assembly the rappresentative could use the minotitarian language. In pubblic amministration office (with the esclusion of police and army) is admittted the use of the minority language. The local authorities should made efferts to have in their amministration people able to speak the minority language. A ciizen has the right to stay in front of the Judge of Peace speaking the minority language. The name of place (toponyms) could have doubble name (one in Italain) the otherin the minority language). Citizens who had a name or a surname in the minority language and the were forced to change them in an Italin form can ask to revert them to the original form. Some agreament could be made to have some television local trasmission by the pubblic televison in the minory language. The law also give some other possibilties. I remark that the law give the possibilty to region, province, municipality to adopt and pay for these possibility, but they are not obliged to.

your points are correct; actually, nobody is forced to use Friulian, in some place is possible to do so, in order to protect this language which was quickly disappearing: from the article, I think it's clear inhabitants of Friuli (I would say so, since the region Friuli-Venezia Giulia is something different, an hybrid) speak Italian, although their native language is Friulian; and I also think that many people knows that Italy has adopted a policy of assimihilation of linguistic minorities, which started with Mussolini and partially continues today; therefore languages like Friulian, Sicilian, Sardinian were put in a corner. --Klenje 22:35, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Come on now, I don't belive the Italian government has a conspiracy to assimilate lingual minorities. This is more a simple aspect of the "modern" world; the introduction of standard languages. It has happened worldwide, and it isn't under the direction of Mussolini. :P Icsunonove 22:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

sostantive?

Quoting from the section, The Variants of Friulian:

“They are usually distinguished by the last letter of sostantives”...

sostantive is not a word in English. I am guessing that what is meant here is noun substantive or simply noun? Oska 00:14, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

changed slightly this part, this happens not only in nouns but also in other parts of speech--Klenje 20:07, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

weak pronouns

I am not a linguist but I believe there is a confusion with weak pronouns. Catalan does have weak pronouns but they are not pleonastic. Weak pronouns in Catalan are simply pronouns that change their pronunciation and spelling based on their position in the sentence or if they are preceded by a vowel. Pleonastic nouns do not exist in Catalan.

I was just about to comment on that. Weak pronouns in Catalan refer to clitic pronouns, that is, pronouns with no stress: "et dono" (I give you), present in almost all Romance languages: ("te doy" in Spanish, "je te donne" in French, etc.). Friulian "weak pronouns" resemble Venetan pronouns in that they are pleonastic. Catalan does not have plenoastic pronouns: "I speak" is simply "jo parlo", whereas in Frulian it is "jo o feveli" (jo + o) or in Venetan "mi mi parle" (mi + mi). --the Dúnadan 16:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Catalan does have clitic/weak personal pronouns, but they are object pronouns. Such clitic object pronouns exist in all Romance languages. Friulian has both object and subject clitic pronouns, which are the pronouns described in the paragraph I modified. Clitic subject pronouns do not exist in Catalan (therefore the comparison is inappropriate). Furthermore, clitic subject pronuons are not "pleonastic" but compulsory in Friulian. Last but not least, as a general rule, it would be more appropriate tu use the definition "clitic pronouns" insted of "weak pronuons" which is a transaltion of the Catalan pronoms febles.

The article states the ISO-639-1 code is fr, which is the code for French. ~ Dodde (talk) 00:02, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 08:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

---

Friulian language → Furlan language — I think it would make sense to distinguish between Friulian as related to any ethnicity/language of Friuli (geographic area) and Furlan as related to the language spoken by Furlans (ethnic/linguistic group). See Talk:Slovenes and Talk:Slovene language for a similar discussion. —Eleassar ^{my talk} 12:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose Furlan language and Friulian language are the same thing, with the exception that the latter is far more common in English. Húsönd 22:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Alphabet

What are the values of each letter? 'Ç'? how is it used? How is it different from 'c'? Joemaza (talk) 08:09, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Translation

Can someone translate this Friulian text?

Scjarazule marazule la lusigne la cracule

la pizule si nizule di polvar a si tacule

scjarazule marazule cu’ la rucule la cocule

la fantate je une trapule il fantat l’è un trapolon

Badagnani (talk) 21:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a native speaker of Friulian, but I've found a site with the Italian translation (I'm Italian :-)):
Branch of fennel, the firefly and the frog
The ‘’little female one’’ rocks (swings), of dust she gets dirty.

Stick and branch of fennel, with arugula and walnut
The girl is a liar, the boy is a cheat (swindler).

For the phonetics: [2]
Apparently, Scjaraçule maraçule are ancient words indicating a fennel branch used for pagan rithuals to invoke rain. :-)--151.51.24.225 (talk) 21:49, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

suggestion - translations

Might I suggest in the various examples given that the Italian translation be given too

i.e. English > Friulano > Italian Hello, my name is Jack! > Mandi, jo mi clami Jacum! > Ciao, mi chaimo Jack —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.168.79.1 (talk) 05:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

In Italian it would be Ciao, mi chiamo Giacomo.--151.51.13.201 (talk) 13:46, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

'Jack' is a familiar form of John, not James. Ciao, mi chiamo Gianni. -- Ceartas (talk • contribs) 20:50, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with anon user 140.168.79.1: This is the English page of this article. I don't see the relevance of adding Italian examples in an article about the Friulian language that is written in English for English readers. Users of languages other than English can click on the language list on the left and find the article with same examples in their language. Respectfully, 71.237.120.119 (talk) 18:13, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it would be a bad idea to add Italian. Friulian was (and is) very influenced by Italian and almost every Friulian live in Italy and speak also Italian. It's something like adding Spanish translations in a page about Catalan or Galician. Or Dutch to a West Frisian article. I'm sure it wouldn't undermine the authority of English in an English Wikipedia for English readers. --151.51.25.173 (talk) 21:14, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Friulan/ Friulian?

The term 'Friulan' is used throughout the entry. I may be wrong, but I suspect 'Friulian' is more natural and more common in English. Perhaps the author has a reason for preferring 'Friulan'? -- Ceartas (talk • contribs) 22:55, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's due to the fact that Friullian is Friulano in Italian.151.51.40.116 (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Good catch! I searched the history and noticed that the change was done here: 09:18, 23 October 2010 Z0rb1n0 (33,262 bytes) (moved Friulian language to Friulan language: Previous title wasn't correct) and here: 09:13, 23 October 2010 Z0rb1n0 (33,262 bytes) (Fixed the title of the article. Simply adding "an" to the place name Friuli is incorrect.)

I think user Z0rb1n0 is wrong. To my knowledge, Friulian is a legitimate spelling in the English language, as attested also by The Ethnologue and ISO 639. Z0rb1n0's contention that this spelling is the result of adding the suffix -an to the geographical name has no basis, IMHO. I motion to revert back to the original (and arguably correct) English spelling "Friulian" 98.245.4.173 (talk) 21:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Friulian is the spelling in the OED as well, so I second your motion. Anyone disagree and support Friulan? If not, we probably can ask an admin to do the move, since it may not be possible to move it back as a regular user. — Eru·tuon 15:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I also second this motion. Can anyone move the page? –Ranching (talk) 22:19, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to come back to this, but I'd like to hear from an Admin about the procedure to move a page. The section "Requested move" above describes a survey that was held on this very topic. The result was "No consensus." Nevertheless, the page was moved, apparently on the initiative of a single user (Z0rb1n0) without any consultation or discussion on this Talk page. Why was the page moved/renamed in spite of the survey results? 67.177.224.165 (talk) 20:53, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

The survey cited above by the IP was between Friulian and Furlan. As Friulian seems to be the consensual form, I moved the article back to it. capmo (talk) 21:36, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

...except maybe for the minor glitch that Friulian hasn't really been shown to be the consensual form? 96.42.57.164 (talk) 17:40, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

It seems that "Friulian" is more common in English, but if you follow some of the external links, you'll notice it also spelled "Friulan". I'm thinking that this question is yet unresolved within the English language, so for the moment, i say that either spelling is acceptable (i personally lean toward "Friulan", distinct from "Friulian", the people). --Jerome Potts (talk) 18:11, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

It's a stylistic choice, but I must admit that Friulian is a choice that seemed to me strange and jarring the first time I saw it, as I was already accustomed to Furlan, Friulano, Frioulan. Friulan came quite naturally and I spoke about it in English long before I saw it written in English. It still does jar, and it seems contrived. Neither form seems to have had much use in English until recently (nothing in the OED or supplement), although historians refer to the Friulan Revolt of 1511, and there's at least one Friulan-English / English-Friulan dictionary. I have a sense, but no proof, that "Friulian" was set in motion by a couple of Anglophone linguists not too long ago, and that the usage has spread (mostly) from that.75.134.23.211 (talk) 03:00, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Totally agree: Friulian is strange and jarring. It sounds like a play form (e.g., in similar spirit but in reverse, Canadia < Canadian, Norwegia < Norwegian), whereas friulano naturally anglicizes to Friulan. I also share the suspicion that a very small number of anglophone linguists (not difficult to identify) re-launched it relatively recently. Unfortunately, even Italian linguists are now using it when writing in English. I suspect they instinctively felt uncomfortable with it, but mistakenly (though understandably) trusted the native speaker(s) of English -- and by doing so implicitly added to its legitimacy. The usage isn't settled, though. Resistance, in this case, is a good thing. 96.42.57.164 (talk) 16:03, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

"Germanization" of Trieste

(Moving user Pgg804's contribution to its own section. 67.177.224.165 (talk) 20:57, 9 March 2012 (UTC))

Wikipedia's "NAZI THEORIES": The article hypothesizes about "Germnanization" of Trieste. Although Trieste belonged to Austria for centuries, there is no evidence to support wikipedia editor's editorializing and theories. WW II started because after WW I the allies stole huge parts of Germany and Austria to create new countries and add territory to existing territories. The allies placed millions of Germans under foreign rule where there rights were reduced or stripped and they were made into 2nd class citizens. The allies stole Memel, Danzig, Alsace-Lorraine, Prague and many other historically German cities. That is what WW II was about. In 1933 Germany had more Nobel Prizes than Great Britain and the USA combined (look it up and count them if you doubt me). The allies intentions at the end of WW I was to weaken Germany and Austria by breaking the countries up.

But, back to Friulan language and Trieste. The only reason Germany occupied Italy was because Italy collapsed immediately when attacked. The Italian army didn't fight when Sicily was attacked and then the mainland. That was when German troops occupied Italy. Otherwise, allied troops would have been right on the Austrian border and very close to Germany without even a struggle.

Germany did not want a war with the west. They did not want another two front war. For the uninformed, it was Britain and France that declared war on Germany, not the other way around. With writers like those of wikipedia, most people would assume Germany attacked those countries. To avoid a two front war Hitler never made any demands for the return of the western areas stolen from Germany after WW I. Hitler never asked for the return of the south Tyrol, Alsace or German lands in the west. He was willing to give them up for peace in the west. And that also allowed Hitler and Mussolini to become strong allies and friends. If Hitler had demanded the south Tyrol from Italy, an alliance with Italy would have been impossible.Pgg804 (talk) 03:50, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

and Friulian

The first sentence of the Introduction: Friulian or Friulan (furlan or, affectionately, marilenghe in Friulian, friulano in Italian, Furlanisch in German, furlanščina in Slovene; also Friulian)

I don't understand the "also Friulian)". The first word of the article already says Friulian. Why say it again here? Omc (talk) 12:08, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

The text had been Friulan throughout, thus "also Friulian" made sense. On 3 September 2013‎ someone executed a mass substitution of all the Friulan with Friulian, and in his/her zeal failed to catch the "also..." and its reason for being there. 96.42.57.164 (talk) 17:30, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Friulian language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://archive.is/20121208223806/http://web.uniud.it/cirf/furlan/welcome.htm to http://web.uniud.it/cirf/furlan/welcome.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060302204137/http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/Furlan-english/ to http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/Furlan-english/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110722053136/http://www.sangiorgioinsieme.it/Diz-friulan-english%20.htm to http://www.sangiorgioinsieme.it/Diz-friulan-english%20.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:58, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

map

the map is so close up, it's not clear. can we have a map of Italy and/or Europe instead? 82.5.35.207 (talk) 23:48, 2 December 2022 (UTC)