Talk:Himba people

Traditions and culture - further info?

If anyone has further information on the Himba it would be really helpful. Please post it if you do. I'm trying to write a short novel about them and need to know more about the traditions and culture of their people. Thanks a lot! -- The preceding unsigned comment was added by User 216.220.255.147 on June 15, 2004 at 23:34

You could look on the german page. There is more information about them. -- The preceding unsigned comment was added by User 62.178l78.205 on December 13, 2005 at 00:58

This is noteworthy: 47.218.189.187 (talk) 20:04, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

References

What do men do, if anything?

Much is made of what women are supposed to do, but not a word about men's task. Herding, maybe?--BertSen (talk) 12:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

That is good question. I was just wondering that myself. Maybe because the women color themselves with the pigment, they are the most interesting to look at and talk about. I haven't seen any pictures of their men and there's not much discussion about them, either. I am beginning to think that the men live separately. --Lance E Sloan (talk) 15:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I just saw a program about them on TV. Two of the things men do: They herd the cattle from place to place. It seemed like the women stay at the "homestead", though they did not state that outright. When the local land was all grazed out, a man set off on a donkey to herd the cattle to other land. They said he'd probably be gone for months, and wasn't happy about it. One man (maybe the youngest, unmarried son) was complaining that he always had to do it, perhaps for his parents. I think they said that the woman sometimes goes with him, but not always.

The other thing was, one man had to go inform his in-laws about his son's (their grandson's) impending circumcision. The men make these "messenger" journeys. It seemed like the women didn't really go anywhere, except when they got married they left their mother's clan and went to their husband's clan.

Speaking of which, I'm not sure whether that means that the women at least might have tri-lateral clanship - mother, father and husband. After the marriage ceremony they described, which lasted two weeks, the last step was that the woman became a member of her husband's clan. Catnmus (talk) 04:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)catnmus

When I lived in a Himba village for three weeks, I noticed that the men weren't around the homestead nearly as much the women. I was typically told that the old men (headmen) were either visiting other homesteads, holding councils with the other headmen, or visiting Opuwo, whether to buy things, sell things, or visit the hospital for various ailments. Boys were either off herding the cattle or going to school (depending on which their parents [usually the mother] decided). The young men, however, rarely lived in the village. Many had left to live in Opuwo, where either formal education or alcohol addiction awaited them. Thus it is with the rising generation, at least from my observations. Jescapism (talk) 01:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Unclear writing

This sentence is terribly unclear: "Since they live on the Angolan border, many Himba were also kidnapping victims in the Angolan civil war." It could be understood as: "Himba were victims of kidnapping" or "the Himba kidnapped people". I'm quite sure the former is correct, but someone needs to fix it. If the Himba were kidnapped, it would be helpful to know by whom and why. Notes/references/sources for these facts/claims are also appreciated. Wikipedia isn't supposed to contain original research. 24.13.6.100 (talk) 22:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Citations Needed

There are only a few citations given for this article and, frankly, not a lot of information. I suggest looking up articles by Dr. David A. Crandall, a recognized authority on the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.138.201 (talk) 23:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Female circumcision

Recent edits have changed the text from stating that female circumcision is practiced to stating that it is not. These two web sites support the orignal text: [1] [2], so I'll revert it. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:27, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

"Famous" Himba

I don't know if this could be worked into the article or not, but a Himba baby, Ponijao, was one of the subjects of the 2010 documentary Babies. One source saying she's Himban: [3]. I don't think this could go into a "Notable Himbans" section, though, because she's not exactly notable, but still worth mentioning. --- cymru lass ^{(hit me up)}⁄_{(background check)} 20:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

This is a good point I've been wondering myself. Perhaps a section In popular culture because this widely distributed and viewed film has brought the Himba and their way of life to public attention. There are probably additional citations from more creditable sources, no offense to www.kentucky.com :-) -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:01, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Material that needs integration

I have moved the following from the Kaokoland article, where it was out of place. It's not wikified, unreferenced, needs rephrasing, and it is largely overlapping with this article, yet something might come handy.

With 16,000 or so inhabitants, 5,000 of the Himba people, Kaokoland has a population density of only one person to every two square kilometers which is about a quarter of the national average. The Himba people inhabited Kaokoland, they are the descendants of the earliest Herero's who migrated around the area in the 16th century. Around the middle of the 18th century the pressure of too many people and cattle in the baked environment led them to migrate to the main body of the Herero to the rich lands further down south. These people are an ancient tribe of semi nomadic pastoralists. Many of them still live and still dressed like the ancient traditions and live in spread out huts throughout Kaokoland. They are a very thin and very tall people. The women are noted for their different and sculptural beauty, by complicated hairstyles and traditional decorations. The girls wear their hair in two plaits hanging over their forehead. When they get married they wear their hair really long into very thin braids. They also have soft skin headpieces on the top of their heads to let everyone know that they are married. They also have necklaces and belts along their bodies and have special white conch pendant that hangs between their naked breasts. These shells are traded through Angola, having originally come all the way from the east coast of Africa, and these are usually presents for women. The most discovery of all, are their spiral copper armlets and iron beaded anklets. Beautiful soft buck skins hang from their hips. For good grooming, every part of the body and every item of dress must be anointed with this mixture which is worn by men and women alike. Himba boys wear the traditional leather apron and the metal beaded collar that all the men regularly wear. The boys tend to shave their heads except for some strip in the center of their head, this way their hair can be tied into a single pig tail in the back of their heads. When they get married they have to wear their hair longer, and keep it all wrapped in a large turban of cloth or softened sheep skin. Both men and women rub their entire bodies with red ochre and fat this helps protect their skins from the hot and dry climate. Their cultures, lifestyle and dress have been well documented and they live side by side with the wildlife in the region much like the proud Maasai people of Masai Mara in Kenya. There homes are simple, they are cone shaped structures of saplings bound together with many palm leaves and plastered with mud and dung, in other words, manure. Families tend to move from one home to another a couple times a year for their goats and cattle. Sandals of leather protect both men and women’s feet from the very hot sand and European belts and a t-shirt which are obvious from nowadays. But the women tend to dress more in their traditional clothes than men. The Himbas' lives most likely revolve around their livestock and their cattle. Cattle are still the main sign for money and status in their society, but they do not normally eat them. The only times they are killed are when there are special ceremonies, such as weddings, name-giving, circumcisions and funerals The Himba Chief’s grave is always surrounded by stone, stout poles and the horns of cattle sacrificed at the funeral. To make sure that the spirit of the sacrificed cattle does not escape the body when the mourners break its neck with their hands, the nostrils are stuffed with grass and clay and its mouth held shut. The dead person's body is wrapped around in raw hide and lowered in a crouching position into the grave, together with all his personal belongings. The mourning that follows is long and cut loose, to ensure that the ancestors welcome the new member; offerings of raw meat are made to them. Once the funeral is over the grave becomes a grave shrine, the ground hallowed, and the place is made for people to worship.

Moongateclimber (talk) 15:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Color perception

This BBC production has more about the color perception. --Palnatoke (talk) 18:46, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

The BBC video could be missing some of the science of Himba vision, because no attempt was made to find out whether they have been selected over millenia for tritanopia or tritanomaly, genetic eye conditions in which blue appears as dark green, because there are no SW cone cells. It looks to me as if a loose translation of the four Himba words for colour would be buru = green (which includes blue in tritanomaly), vapa = white (which includes yellow in tritanomaly), zuzu = dark, and dambu = intensely coloured (even brown looks pretty if you take the SW cone signal out of it). Presumably, the sun would be vapa. Someone should test their eyesight a little more rigorously, and maybe even their genes, if they would allow it. The advantage on the savanna not seeing blue are that specks on the horizon can be seen with better acuity (the blue focuses differently from red or green), and you wouldn't need sunglasses, because the bright sky isn't bright without the blue component. DJMcC (talk) 15:56, 19 September 2012 (UTC) Other parts of this site this site have more details on variations in human colour vision: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Dichromacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Anomalous_trichromacy DJMcC (talk) 17:19, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Could someone add more Himba-men picures?

Pictures should also have some Himba-men since the article should be representative for all Himbas.

--Arsaces (talk) 01:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

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Fake Himba Birth Song myth

There is this fake news story that circulates and gets reshared e.g. on facebook that the Himba women would go sit under a tree when they want to have a baby, and then mysteriously would start hearing such song, then teach it to a man they want to have the baby with and etc. More: http://aidamanduley.com/2015/03/10/the-real-origin-of-the-african-birth-song/

SvenAERTS (talk) 03:14, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Tourists photographing Himba people.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:34, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Pictures again / personality rights

I'm part of a group doing research with Ovahimba in Kaokoland. An Omuhimba elder recently alerted us that some of the pictures are not appropriate, particularly those that were taken without knowledge of the individuals (with telephoto lenses) or their consent (with camera drones).

The issue is that what this article describes as villages in picture subscripts are actually homesteads, those huts together make up one family home. Spying tourists thus easily spot people that are not appropriately dressed. Not those bare breasts of the women, but rather missing ornaments, blankets instead of skirts, hairdo in-the-making, and so on. As the elder asked two of my colleagues, Why Is She Naked?

There are also members of other tribes dressing as Ovahimba to perform for tourists (recognisable to an Omuhimba because of the random arrangement of clothes and ornaments), so it is an issue of personality right as well as factuality of the article. I guess a photo of an European/American gained by peeping through their entrance door, would be unacceptable, too.

I'll be in the field again soon and plan to present the portfolio of Commons pictures. The thing is, what I will gain as commentary is not a reliable source by our standards---Any idea how to go about that? --Thanks, Pgallert (talk) 08:13, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Update: I have removed 2 pictures that are definitely not depicting Ovahimba, and I have promoted one from the gallery. I also changed one wrong picture subscript. --Pgallert (talk) 13:37, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

I just wanted to (re-)add the PDF-link you mentioned because it didn't seem to work anymore. Here it is. I hope it is helpful. Athaba (talk) 17:15, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Mukuru

Mukuru comes up as connected to Zimbabwe (The Shona) is this correct or is the linking correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.0.4.168 (talk) 12:53, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Photos of Naked Women

What are we only seeing photos of naked women here? Where are the men? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.243.169.73 (talk) 06:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I concur. I see nothing wrong with all the women being topless - I suppose it's just the tribal custom - but I find it very disturbing that there's absolutely no pictures of men. JIP | Talk 19:26, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Out of 17 photos, 10 in this article show breasts. I mean breasts are great, but it feels pretty sexist and not at all good. Sanpitch (talk) 00:13, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Genocide Libel

Please remove unsourced genocide claims. 105.12.2.1 (talk) 12:39, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for picking this up. --Pgallert (talk) 19:30, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Raining season

I heard that these people do not bath. So the question is what do they do during raining season? 2A03:2880:FF:F:0:0:FACE:B00C (talk) 06:42, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Teeth

Why do the Himba people knock out incisor teeth in children approaching puberty? Marymarcel (talk) 22:30, 9 March 2023 (UTC)