Talk:Higher education

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Should government sectors in developing countries promote higher education for adults or should efforts be concentrated on the younger population and the preparation for the retirement of adults?

Durability of higher education

- - Occasionally, it is argued that higher education is no longer necessarly as it become obsolete soon after graduation. This observation is raised of a couple of reasons; - - * Industry changes are so fast these days that a particular know how is only relevant for a short time before it is obsoleted by the next fad. - * The Internet has made information so pervasive that one can understand and undertake most jobs that previously required training after a short on line search. - * Globalization has lead to a decreased emphasis on research as both governments and industries have pursued cost cuttting to the hilt. Employers therefore value an employees who can provide an narrow immediate skill than a broad knowledge but no specific skill. This is ironic in that most government leaders are trying to move their governments to information economy. For example, this is the primary goal for Lisbon Agenda. - * The observation may be driven by delusion as higher education no longer garantee employment as it used to be in the past. - * As governments have cut back on education spending, some higher education have baised their teaching material to a specific vendor in an attempt to secure funding. This however reduce the durability of awarded diploma as its validity is rigidly tied to a particular vendor. - - Despite these observations, higher education especially in universities is still important. Higher education, when well delivered, is supposed to educate the candidate how to acquire a necessary skill and why a specific way of dealing with a problem is superior to an alternative. This is possible as higher education allows one to face a problem from a holistic point of view. Higher education also helps fill information gap, which is very pervasive in skilled but uneducated employees.

Some relevant facts

• I am aware Britian, Canada and USA have cut their education budget substantially in the last 10 to 15 years
• China on the other hand have increased their education spending to a ridiculous level. I can't find it now, but I am very sure I saw an article on BBC that claimed China has over 700,000 government sponsored student in western universities. Thats on top of those they are training locally. On the article, bbc also commented how loyal the students are to their mother country China. I think the only other country that I can think of that have increased investment on education was *Venezuela* (sorry for the spelling)

Just some points that may looks really obvious some years to come, but can't currently be entered in wikipedia. Note, I completely understand why western countries trimmed their education budgets, but I can't help feeling they are misguided for putting too much of their future on IP given these facts. Just my two cents

Removed section "Catholic higher education"

I temporarily move the text below here. The subject deserves a discussion, possibly even in a separate article, but the particular text below has not found its proper context in the current state of this article. (This unsigned comment was from me --Yuzz 23:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC))

Catholic higher education

Sacred Heart University of Fairfield, Connecticut, was founded in 1963 by a group of laypersons with the leadership of the Most Reverend Walter W. Curtis, Bishop of Bridgeport, Connecticut. Sacred Heart is the first institution of Catholic higher education established to be administered by the laity.

Merger

I think the two articles should be merged. Post-secondary education defines itself as higher education in the article so it should be merged. --Noetic Sage 17:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

→Keep Post-secondary education is split into Further Education (FE) and Higher Education (HE). FE is GCE A-Level, Scottish Higher and other non undergraduate post-16 awards. HE is under- and post-graduate courses such as degrees and HNDs. The subjects are not the same. --Andy Hartley 12:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

→Keep There is a clear (legal) distinction between Further Education and Higher Education. The article could do with a re-write to make that a little more apparent. I agree with the above that it not appropriate to merge the articles. Jhamez84 01:00, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

→Keep Don't merge things just because one of them has the definition wrong! ;) Perhaps it's just that the post-secondary education article needs some work. – Kieran T ^{(talk | contribs)} 18:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

→Keep I agree with Andy and others. Tertiary education should have a short entry explaining that it is what comes after secondary education, and including cross references to further education and higher education. 'Higher education' is a very widely used concept around the world.Ginevradabenci (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

No Merger

Post-secondary education could refer to any form of education after completing one's Secondary Education. This could be job training, certification (such as HVAC technician), vocational-technical, or Higher Education. While often used synonimously, they are not. Higher Education refers to a degree from a college or university. Elwood64151 18:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• Don't merge I came here following a link on tertiary education, a term I was unfamiliar with. It was useful to have a short article explaining it. --Utahredrock 03:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Criticism?

Higher education could definitely have a criticism section, from multiple viewpoints. I know here in the US it's seen as a sad joke from people of all poitical persuasions. - MSTCrow 03:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe you mean secondary education, not higher education. Higher education is one of the US's largest exports (three times the size of steel). Also one of the fastest growing (8% annually for the past decade). On the other hand, a high school diploma in the US is virtually worthless. Wikiant 12:47, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Their higher education isn't much better than their secondary schools. The only difference is less critics. It deserves a criticism section. On the curriculum and the high view most of society has on students of higher learning and how they perceive them to be "smart" which isn't always true.

I have nothing against including a criticisms section, however, the market clearly disagrees with you. Higher education in the US is not mandatory, yet not only do foreigners come here in record numbers for higher education, but the market value of a US degree (vs. a US diploma) has risen 70% over the past 20 years -- net of inflation *and* net of tuition increases. Wikiant 11:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Not to criticize the value of degrees but the validity of them.

[1] Valid enough points. --Kenneth M Burke 14:15, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Bad merge

There is a distinction between post-secondary education and higher education. Examine:

• Further education
• Sixth form college
• Ontario Academic Credit
• CEGEP

In many places outside the U.S., there is a notion of a level of education above compulsory secondary education but lower than university-level higher education. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ (AMA) 00:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC) I concur - can this merge be undone, and a disambiguation section created please? Stormac (talk) 21:49, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Federal Bureau of Investigation created the National Security Higher Education Advisory Board

While that section is interesting, I don't think it belongs on a general page about higher education around the globe. I think it should be relocated.

Concerned Scientist says : 1) The above observation is completely alien to me - but where would the person advise that it be relocated to?

2) PLEASE SIGN YOUR POSTS (JUST USE ConcernedScientist 17:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC) )

ConcernedScientist 17:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Higher Education Institutions By Region

It seems to me that the List of Higher Education Institutions by Region does NOT include the UK. Is there any reason for why Higher Education within the UK is not included ? (of course, I suppose it is just waiting for someone to add it)

I haven't had too much time to review this particular Higher Education wiki (or think about how UK Higher Education institutions would work out) – but this would be a good thing to do at some point.

ConcernedScientist 17:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"Types--general" inappropriate tone

On the second paragraph:

"Deciding to further your education and attain a degree tends to improve many aspects of life. People with college degrees tend to earn more money and salary increases over the years are more substantial than for those that do not have a college degree or university degree. Additionally..."

From then on, the thing's packed with vague positives. ("Tends to improve many aspects of life"--which ones?) It also addresses the reader in the second person ("The Occupational Outlook Handbook is a wonderful tool that you can use in various ways.")
Clearly, college can be useful, but this makes it sound a bit a college brochure. Do we edit it for tone and length, or just cut it out altogether? The bit about it impacting salary strikes me as valid enough. Kennard2 09:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I think the entire section should be cut. If someone wants to add a section regarding the salary content the so be it but I don't think it should be under the section "General". Bmstephany 19:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

"Tertiary" = "post-secondary"

For uses of "tertiary education" to mean all education past secondary – Colleges of F.E., undergraduate courses, graduate courses, etc. – see Australia, Greece, Mauritius, new Zealand, Trinidad & Tobago, the [2], theWorld Bank, and this journal). See also the Analytic Quality Glossary definition and description (which also includes reference to the "third-level" synonym),

I've merged the maetrial from the "tertiary education" article, and redirected it here. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:48, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

Given that all the good information from Tertiary_education is here, and that I'm proposing that that page merge with this one. By the way, Post_secondary Education has been merged into this page, but it still has a seperate talk page. Is that correct? GumbyProf: "I'm about ideas, but I'm not always about good ideas." 20:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. Tertiary education should remain a short signpost article both to higher education and to vocational education, since tertiary can mean either or both. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 10:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. Tertiary education isn't just Higher Education - Further education is usually considered to be tertiary as well for a start. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

With no consensus, I am removing the merge proposal banners from the articles. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 16:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm concerned that this series of articles is very muddling. In the UK, post-secondary education includes both further education and higher education. Also in the UK, "tertiary education" does not always equate to HE, but can be restricted to FE - a "tertiary college" does not offer degree-level programmes. There also needs to be space to describe the Australian TAFE. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Itsmejudith, I think the word 'college' in the phrase 'tertiary college' is that bit that suggests it doesn't offer degrees (though - even more confusingly - some vo-tech colleges now offer foundation degrees). Go ahead and link in TAFE - judging by its article, I think it should be summarised in further education.

The English language is complicated, particularly when it comes to specific technical terms. One job of an encyclopedia is to explain them as clearly as possible. We are not yet achieving that, so I, for one, would welcome improvements. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 08:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Could the merge be undone and a disambiguation section be created please? Stormac (talk) 21:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

What?

Several institutions claiming to be of higher education are not and are deceiving thousands of people. Please address this. 199.117.69.8 (talk) 19:57, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

References please: who says they are not? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 11:00, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

What about Science, Technology, Engineering and Math?

Is there a reason why these are omitted from any mention under "Types" of higher education?

Please forgive me if I haven't done this right. I have never edited or posted anything on Wikipedia before.

--64.24.152.3 (talk) 18:14, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

hello —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.72.73.3 (talk) 19:00, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

still no criticism?

The article for anti-intellectualism does not address the viewpoint several people including myself have of valuing knowledge but opposing the elitist, greedy, snobbish, aristocratic, and oftentimes hypocritic collegiate and university establishments and we question the validity of their academic degrees, curriculum, tuition fees, and methods of grading. We also oppose the judging of a person's value based on which places of higher learning they attended, if any at all. We oppose the whole idea of credentials actually. 199.117.69.60 (talk) 00:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, not a debate forum. If you can cite reputable sources and provide a cogent and relevant treatment, then by all means include the argument in the article. Wikiant (talk) 01:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

One good source is Upton Sinclair's book called The Goose-Step (1923) where he proves that “Our educational system is not a public service, but an instrument of special privilege; its purpose is not to further the welfare of mankind, but merely to keep America capitalist." And "That our six hundred thousand young people are being taught, deliberately and of set purpose, not wisdom but folly, not justice but greed, not freedom but SLAVERY, not love but hate." They teach greed, folly, slavery & hate (Capitalism). Stars4change (talk) 00:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

He *proves* this?? Perhaps we're using different definitions for academic. Wikiant (talk) 19:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Another is Ferdinand Lundberg's The Rich and the Super-Rich (1968) says most philanthropic money funneled into education has some benefit, but most of it has been devoted to producing corporate personnel, with the primary mission of making profits. It's common in US for people to read in newspapers and magazines of great new medical advances and discoveries, but they little realize that most of these advances will never be available to them, will be available only to those who can afford them in a few centrally located medical centers. "The wide prevalence of slums would suggest to visitors from another planet that there was little education, science or medicine available to anyone at all in the United States." The book is loaded with info, so much that every word should be online. Stars4change (talk) 01:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

"Efficient conversation"

"Note that in North America, but not in Canada, the word "college" is very often used as a synonym for "university", especially in efficient conversation, for the simple reason that "college" is a two-syllable word, whereas "university" is five syllables long." Citation for this would be good. Personally, I think that the reasons why people say "college" instead of "university" is considerably more complicated and, unless there is a reference provided, this whole statement should be removed.Jimjamjak (talk) 10:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal

This article should be merged with Tertiary education in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylwia Ufnalska (talk • contribs) 07:41, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

• Comment. Apparently there are differences in the English speaking world on their definitions. It's my understanding that the merger would not be smooth. Therefore, it might be better not to merge. Student7 (talk) 21:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Moscow Lomonosov State University 01.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Images

I do not find the image that Rrodic/Mosalman has prominently placed at the top of the article is an iconic image of a US university. It is not immediately recognizable (it's now used for administrative purposes) and, as US universities go, fairly recent. I have no particular preference, but find the images congested and arbitrary, perhaps better placed in a gallery. The Harvard image was added in October 2011 and remained there until three or four days ago. The image from Cambridge, the first to be added, is iconic. Mathsci (talk) 06:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Tertiary education

Actually I'm neutral about the merge, but since my edit of Higher education was reverted, I would like to request for more opinions. Quest for Truth (talk) 08:56, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Higher education is to Tertiary education in the same way as Square is to Rectangle. It is correct to say that Higher education is also often called Tertiary education, however Tertiary education is not solely Higher education. No merge is necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 19:17, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Should be merged. Tshuva (talk) 13:21, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Both articles state that they cover the same subject. Higher education calls itself Tertiary education in the opening sentence, and Tertiary education disputes Higher education's monopoly on the terms "post-secondary education" and "third level education". Unless these clearly diverge into covering two separate but similar subjects, they should be merged to eliminate redundancy and confusion. 8ty3hree (talk) 01:31, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

• Merge. I like the term "higher education" but admit that tertiary education is clearer and unambiguous. Apparently, I felt differently 3 years ago! (see above). Student7 (talk) 17:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

• Merge Tertiary education into Higher education. Tertiary education as an article seems to be a duplicate of this article in regards to them purporting to cover the exact same subject, although there's apparently a subtle regional difference in meaning. Since that difference is by no means apparent at the moment, it'd probably be best to merge that into Higher education since it's smaller and newer, then discuss an appropriate title. 9³ 00:46, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

If we take Template:Education stages as authoritative, then Higher education is a part of Tertiary education. 9³ 00:55, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Indeed it is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep both but emphasize vocational and continuing education as alternative tertiary education options. Failure of the college article to include significant information about what a typical American would consider "going to college" diminishes the usefulness of our set of articles, in my opinion, at least to American high school students and decision makers. User:Fred Bauder Talk 08:55, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Restructure article to allow for globalization?

Right now, the article addresses some differences in higher education in different places (mostly English-speaking), but does so rather haphazardly. In order to make it more feasible to reflect global differences in higher ed, it seems like it would be helpful to consider a re-organization. Can anyone suggest a model article that takes on a topic like this with a good coverage of global variation? AngelaVietto (talk) 18:50, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Oldest university

The picture of a place in Fez being called as the "oldest university" is pretty much an exaggeration. There are seven editors at that article who have successfully defended against its removal. However, the concept of a university was not encompassed until the Middle Ages, in Europe, as listed in List of oldest universities in continuous operation. Neither is it listed at List of the oldest madrasahs in continuous operation in the Muslim world. There are more and neutrals eyes there. Guinness as a WP:RS? "Record for eating the most peanuts at one sitting?" That Guinness? I don't think so.

A madrassah, anyway, is more like a Bible school than a university. Student7 (talk) 20:42, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Agree Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 16:51, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Higher Education

This article needs to have more juice to the topic. It only gives you statistics and bland definitions of what higher education is. It basically is reader’s digest for dummies. The need to add more opposing views and give you options for discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.206.224 (talk) 16:52, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Be our guest. fgnievinski (talk) 17:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Institution of higher education or higher learning

I see that nearly all the captions to the photographs refer to "institution of higher learning" rather than "institution of higher education". Now I realize that to some institution of higher learning might be the preferred term, even so "institution of higher education" turns up 13 million google hits compared to only half a million for institution of higher learning. Would anybody care to comment? Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 16:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Google's counter is notoriously unreliable, so I don't know if this is any more accurate, but.... I limited my search to the past year and googled "institution of higher learning" -site:wikipedia.org and "institution of higher education" -site:wikipedia.org and then clicked to the end to see how many pages of results there were for each, and there were 32 pages of results for "institution of education" and 38 pages for "institution of higher learning", which is only a difference of ~60 websites. IMO that's a negligible difference in the grand scheme of life. When I googled both phrases in the same search, I found a lot of universities using both interchangeably in their mission statements and the Code of Virginia says, "For purposes of this section: 'Institution of higher learning' means any post-secondary school, trade or professional institution, or institution of higher education." Maryland and Pakistan both have an office called the "Higher Education Commission". It doesn't seem like there's a clear preference to me (and we haven't even started talking about websites that prefer institiute of higher education/learning), so I think we should go by the old adage, "Don't fix what's not broken". Maybe a lot of the pictures were uploaded/labeled by the same person who was used to saying "institution of higher learning". —PermStrump(talk) 17:51, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

International Handbook of Universities 2017 Link

Greetings to everybody: I want to propose the addition of the International Handbook of Education 2017 The available option are as follows

• Webarchive Flipbook International Handbook of Universities 2017
• UNESCO Centre British Virgin Islands PDF International Handbook of Universities 2017

Both Options are available for free, compiled in a book, actually also available in a Paperback option in AMAZON [3] UNESCO International Handbook of Universities 2017

I published here, but another editor felt it was non enciclopedic, and UNDO the changes. Thanks for feedbacksTaesulkim (talk) 19:25, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

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Tagged since June 2018

I note that the issue on this page has not been addressed. It is entirely US-centric- may I propose that it is renamed Higher Education in the United States freeing the title to approach the topic from the UNESCO Tertiary education (ISCED levels 5 to 8) definition. "International Standard Classification of Education (ISCED)". uis.unesco.org. Retrieved 29 November 2018.. See also:European Qualifications Framework

That said the residual article has problems with referencing, factual accuracy, over-linking and focus. The quality code needs to be revised downwards.--ClemRutter (talk) 23:01, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

• I came across this article again, and intended to do a small change- adding a space. I looked at the lead and started to clean it up- hence the new section. I looked at the images- and hence the Gallery section. I looked at the reference that supported Fez- this is not a binary decision so its now commented out and the argument can continue below. Having started on the lead I continued and included ISCED data. Yes I have been bold- now that has been sorted, please can we have some non US-centric activity. --ClemRutter (talk) 14:16, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:34, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

History of higher education

The section with this title consisted of the following, which I have removed, since it discusses U.S. history only, which is obviously misleading - see, for example, List of oldest universities in continuous operation, which discusses universities in operation for many hundreds of years before the U.S. even came into existence.

Main article: History of higher education in the United States

The U.S. system of higher education was heavily influenced by the Humboldtian model of higher education. Wilhelm von Humboldt's educational model goes beyond vocational training. In a letter to the Prussian king, he wrote:

There are undeniably certain kinds of knowledge that must be of a general nature and, more importantly, a certain cultivation of the mind and character that nobody can afford to be without. People obviously cannot be good craftworkers, merchants, soldiers or businessmen unless, regardless of their occupation, they are good, upstanding and – according to their condition – well-informed human beings and citizens. If this basis is laid through schooling, vocational skills are easily acquired later on, and a person is always free to move from one occupation to another, as so often happens in life.Günther, Karl-Heinz (1988). "Profiles of educators: Wilhelm von Humboldt (1767–1835)". Prospects. 18: 127–136. doi:10.1007/BF02192965.

The philosopher Julian Nida-Rümelin criticized discrepancies between Humboldt's ideals and the contemporary European education policy, which narrowly understands education as a preparation for the labor market, and argued that we need to decide between McKinsey and Humboldt.Nida-Rümelin, Julian (29 October 2009). "Bologna-Prozess: Die Chance zum Kompromiss ist da". Die Zeit (in German). Retrieved 29 November 2015.

-- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:51, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Continuing to remove off-focus material

I have my own theories on how this article got into such an appalling mess. I have left inline comments. I moved stuff from the lead to main, and littered the text with {{cn}}. There is one country specific section that needs to be floated (and then copy-edited)- I could do it, but I would prefer someone else to take ownership. The topic is not just about bricks and mortar but should have a high economic and sociological input too. ClemRutter (talk) 14:51, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Languages

Howa many language of insruction in Higher education in the world? Are anywhere list of these languages?--Kaiyr (talk) 17:20, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Critical Race Theory and Education

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 January 2022 and 6 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tabryant2 (article contribs).

"Academic study" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Academic study has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 4 § Academic study until a consensus is reached. :3 F4U (they/it) 02:42, 4 August 2023 (UTC)