Talk:Bhangra (music)

Musicians

Some people behind anonymous IPs have been adding names of artists. Since I'm not all that conversant with bhangra, particularily the scene in the UK, I can't tell if these are the major artists or if they're someone's brother-in-law. I hope these names are legit.

I rearranged in alphabetic order (easier to read and find that way) and turned them into links. All the red links are stubs and need to be filled out. That would be worthy project. Zora 03:02, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I concur Khirad^talk 22:50, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I have fixed the names that are actually popular and removed the small time artists. It is ridiculous that somebody puts an artist with only one album released a month ago on the page. I have kept my personal bias aside. For example, I personally think Daler Mendi and has twisted bhangra into a bollywood mockery but I have kept him on there along with others. As of right now 95% of the list is accurate. However, as this gets more popular you will see people flooding their names in this list. - Jatt November 27, 2005

I won't stand against your edits, but be prepared to defend them if other folks protest. It would be good if we had a stated criterion. More than one album? As for me, I'm an ignorant gori and I like Daler. He does "honky-tonk" music -- reminds me a little of zydeco <g>. Zora 19:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what the page currently looks like because it keeps switching between my legendary artists and notable. But the list I compiled is not personal opinion. These guys are known as legends in the game and world renowned. There is no question to the contribution and record sales of these people. You can do your own personal research on everyone I including in the legendary list / world renowned list. The diff OMG..who took out all the great artists that i entered here...where is "mattar paneer"... damn you....anywayz i am of the opinion that way too many indian artists are left on the list....someone has a bias against Great Britain...darkies...put those great artists back on please.... khatri january..colddddd

if you make a list of musicians, it should include only people who write and perform music. No singers should be included on such a list as a SINGER IS NOT A MUSICIAN — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxiousnews (talk • contribs) 03:06, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

It would be useful to have a discussion of the origins of the word "bhangra". Many people seem to believe it comes from bhang, an intoxicating drink made from marijuana but others say it derives from "bhag" which is a traditional Punjabi dance [1]. --Lee Hunter 13:50, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I, myself was wondering about this. Both make sense. Many sources refer to it deriving from the dance[2], and given the natural relationship between music and dance this is likely. But intoxication is also a common metaphor in the Persian/Indian world, and the similarity with bhaṅg (ਭੰਗ), while it may be a misleading similarity, it is still too close for me to dismiss without further study. Khirad^talk 22:49, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

The other traditional punjabi dance is called Bagh(garden?) not 'bhag'. Bhangra however comes from Bhang or the common cannabis plant found in rural Punjab. It originated in the upper indus Valley in southern Punjab, where devotees consumed a drink made of bhang(still a popular drink at holi), some historians suggest that Bhangra(as well as the legend of holi) might have been a tradition that originated in the ancient Indus valley civilization, where a shiva like figure was worshipped, and was later carried forward by vedic religion. Bhangra is much more ancient than we tend to believe. In post islamic punjab after the 11th century it was confined to village fairs and festivals etc. in areas where strict islamic tradition was not followed(as dancing in public was forbidden). The current populatrity of Bhangra could be attributed to the changed cicumstances in later part of the 20th century(i.e dance is not taboo any more) and publicity through the mass media, especially Bollywood and music albums created in the west. 18:45 pm, March 12, 2007 (UTC)

From the many scholars I've discussed the etymology with, none agree with the Bhang theory. The Bhang theory is more folklore than anything else. There is also the notion that Bhangra is related to Bhang because Shiva worshippers would drink Bhang and dance. But no where else in India or Pakistan do Shiva dances resemble Bhangra. There is no ancient or midevil literature that mentions Bhangra either. Also, Bhag in this context it means "panther" and was a tribal dance where the dancers would mimic a jumping panther while dancing. I don't know if this theory is plausable either. T.S. Dhanoa

Featured In

I'm intrerested in bhangra, but I don't know enough about it. It'd be cool to have a list of movies it has been featured in, so some users can make that connection. Didn't the wedding scene from the film "Bend It Like Beckham" have a bhangra group? --bakuyaku 14:37, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if it was a cameo of a notable group, but it was certainly bhangra, especially since the movie was about a Punjabi family. The movies bhangra is in would be perhaps too numerous to mention though as it is very popular to incorporate in Bollywood - especially the patriotic movies which always have at least one Sikh, if not a Sikh regiment. Such songs like "Shava Shava" from K3G (Kabhi Khushi Khabi Gham), etc., might be notable mentions though. Khirad^talk 22:20, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Shahmukhi?

I added the Gurmukhi. To avoid any appearances of bias towards India I also wished to add the Shahmukhi but was uncertain of its spelling. My guesses are: بهنگڑا، بهنگڑه, I am mainly unsure about the final -a. Also what about adding commentary on commonly heard Punjabi vocabulary used in bhangra. I myself don't know if others think it would be useful, but the interjections like 'shava' and 'balle' are notable features anyone of non-Indian origin who has listened to bhangra might notice. Khirad^talk 23:14, 18 November 2005 (UTC) There is no evidencfe of any Languge Called Shahmukhi. Whereas Gurumukhi is the mutilateted form of Punjabi which is being used by the Ill visioned clerics of the Akal Takht. It is actually Punjabi.

All the facts are mutilated by the Pro Khalistan Elements who have a pervert vision. Bhangra is traditional dance of Hindus & Sikhs as well — Preceding unsigned comment added by Free pretender (talk • contribs) 06:15, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

List of notable artists

Even though it said "alphabetical by last name", various editors have been reorganizing it by first name. OK, I give. By first name. That is easier to alphabetize -- even if it might make it hard for people to find artists, if they remember the last but not the first name.

Some names seem to have been dropped during the re-organization. Could you please notify other editors if you're planning to drop someone? I don't mean vanity additions, some schoolboy in the UK putting his own name in the list, but people with actual albums or songs out. But dropping Daler Mehndi -- that seems like a criticism of his music rather than removal of a vanity edit.

Now I realize that by the "album or song out" criterion we might have hundreds of names on the list. Maybe we need a stricter criterion. Let's discuss it here. But just dropping artistes you don't personally like, if anybody is doing that, isn't OK. Zora 19:45, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Classification of bhangra artistes

Jatt, it's OK to categorize artistes by the period in which they were active, or the country in which they mainly perform. However, it is NOT OK to classify them by how "good" you think they are. That's your private judgment and you can't impose it on the article. I have reverted your changes to the point just before you started re-organizing them into "legendary" and "notable", and I'd ask that you stick to time periods and countries. If you're considering other categories, discuss them here first, please. Zora 20:57, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Ego entries

Dear all, I am a fan of Bhangra and am a user of Wikipedia. Some of the artists on the list are a joke. For example, DJ Stormz is a little known radio DJ but he is listed as a producer. As far as I know, he has never put out an album or a single song in the market. The fact that he may be working on an album does not justify him being on there. Then there is also Panjabi by Nature who despite putting out several albums has not yet had a notable hit song. Who are Desi Elite Sounds? I'm guessing their DJ's, not producers. My point is, to an outsider reading this page, they will be getting the wrong idea about whose who in Bhangra. Can people please use common sense when adding artists? I find it rather sad that artists are using Wikipedia to satisfy their own egos. - Anon Bhangrafan, 14th April 2006

I'm one of the few editors who keeps tabs on this article, and I'm just not up on the UK bhangra scene. Nor do I have time to research all the additions to the lists. If you could step forward and prune the lists, that would be great. Perhaps we need a policy re notability here? Um, if no Wikipedia article on the person, the entry goes? Articles get some scrutiny as to notability. So just go through and wipe out all the red links. Then if there are any blue links that look dicey, put those articles up for deletion. If only one person stands up for the article (the person who wrote the vanity article, presumably) then the article will go, the link will turn red, and can be pruned. Does this seem reasonable to you? Zora 11:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to do it

If no article, no name in list. Article must have at least one reference showing that the artist is notable. Zora 22:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:) I've been through them once myself - some of the red links are certainly well known Punjabi artists (Hans Raj Hans, Apna Sangeet and some of the others). However, others I'm not too sure about so I left all the red links in. I did double check all the artists on Google and I removed some [3] but only the ones I was definately sure of. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 23:12, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Project Gotham Racing 3

Bhangra is a music selection in Project Gotham Racing 3.

The article Jassi Sidhu needs to be expanded.

The article Jassi Sidhu needs to be expanded. The article B21 is probably okay, but I would appreciate it if someone could have a look at it. If there are articles on either B21 or Jassi Sidhu in other language Wikipedias that aren't already shown in these articles, could you please add links to the other-language articles? I rescued the Jassi Sidhu article from being speedily deleted, but I'm having trouble finding sources that I can use to expand it. TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 22:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Um, when did all the artistes disappear?

We used to have a long long list of musicians, bands, producers ... they all just disappeared. When did that happen? Why? I know it was a pain to keep it cleared of advertising and vandalism, but it did have some information value. Zora 02:38, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

It was deleted by Sukh about a month ago. In the edit summary, Sukh said that it was unmaintainable. If you want more detail, I'd suggest leaving a message on [[User talk:Sukh|Sukh's talk page. RedRollerskate 20:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Listing the players of bhangra

It's childish when people keep adding their names, it is one of the reasons that bhangra keeps going around in a circle, I can list all the main players for bhangra, be it bands, dj's and producers. Are you cool with that?

Blatant copyvio

Sorry I had to do this, but: I just reverted the article to revision 146299596, as a very large part of the text was blatantly lifted verbatim from [4], without any permission being noted here. That article has a note at the bottom: "Copyright © Punjab Online, all rights reserved." Clearly we are not allowed to use this text like that. Hairy Dude 14:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Sources

Can we find some sources for the article? At the moment, while it does a good job at summing up the history of Bhangra, it is completely unsourced, and as such will ned to be deleted/stubified unless sources are introduced. Sfacets 00:11, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A large part of the article is copied word-for-word from http://www.punjabonline.com/servlet/library.history?Action=Bhangra

In addition, the "Percussion" section is mostly opinion... "without doubt the best dholki percussionist" ???

I'd work on this but I know nothing about Bhangra (that's what I came to this article to find out ;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.176.36.130 (talk) 05:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Present Day Bhangra

Present day Bhangra is nothing but a farcical façade of it's former self with the majority of those still producing albums, looking to make a fast buck with lyrics that have no meanings, and electronic instruments overused to the point where we've got Punjabi lyrics coupled with r n' b tunes that sound awful. Present day bhangra is a shadow of itself. The only saving grace are some productions that might come out of the motherland. Compare and contrast the scene of today with that of the late 80's and the 90's when we, as per the wiki article, had so much talent producing some excellent music here in the UK - an era which is now at an end, maybe partly because the artists didn't get the returns they should have due to bootlegging and piracy, and now, the internet and downloading where most asians seem to think that music should be freely available. Present Day Bhangra... give us a break! It's dead! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Volatileacid (talk • contribs) 04:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

no my friend. your a farcical facade or your former self. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.46.50 (talk) 21:27, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

agreed,

bhangra went bye bye in mid 90s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxiousnews (talk • contribs) 07:15, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

"A form of British Music" a good definition for Bhangra?

Play Bhangra music to most of Britain's 60 million people and they will automatically that know this music is of Indian origin, not British. Just because bhangra's modern form was invented in Britain, doesn't mean that it's British music; it builds upon native Indian music styles, not British ones. I am from Canada, and Bhangra is synonymous with the Indo-Canadian (and Pakistani-Canadian) community, there is no mention at all of it as a "form of British music." Regardless of where a particular form of music is invented, its cultural value is determined by its roots. I think a better definition for Bhangra is something more like "a variety of Punjabi music that developed in Britain from traditional styles of dance and song from the Punjab Region brought there my the large Punjabi immigrant community." It gives respect to its modern origins in Britain, its roots in South Asia and keeps it fairly equal. Any one knows Bhangra is Punjabi...not just British. Call it Indo-British, but calling Bhangra British is simply incorrect. Welsh, Scottish and English music is British, it developed after centuries (if not millennia) from native populations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.73.186 (talk) 18:59, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

its British, as it only existed as a dance form prior to its invention in the UK. by defintion, bhangra music is not traditional music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxiousnews (talk • contribs) 05:48, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

if you play classic bhangra songs like 'roop tere diyaan' by Paaras, or something off of bhangra fever 1, it will be very hard to tell that they have anything to do with India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxiousnews (talk • contribs) 00:55, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Dead Link

In the Bhangra#In North America section, there is a link to "http://www.dholdiawaz.comment". This is an invalid URL and, predictably, is broken. Does anybody know where it's supposed to go? 152.7.9.32 (talk) 06:01, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't matter where it's supposed to go because the website was advertising itself on Wikipedia. Advertising is not allowed here so I've removed it. Thanks for picking this up. Gizza^{Discuss ©} 07:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Origin of Bhangra Folk Dance

The opening of this Article has its Racial essence in i, It is performed not only by Sikh Farmers but also by Punjabi Hindu farmers. Punjabi stands for Hindus from Punjab & not Sikhs. I think phangra dance was invented whenever vasakhi celebration originally started may be hunderds of years ago and not just after 1947 as it has been stated in your writeup. My father was Indian military officer ( doctor ) he was sent to Second World War in 1941 when I was just 12 years old. First time I had the opportunity to attend a Maila festival at village Raikot in Dist. Ludhiana,Punjab. I had witnessed Bhangra Folk dance coducted by a group of dancers and singers cosisted of sikh and muslim young men and women. They wore colorful custumes and men dancers wore heavy gold necklas ( kandha ), Chadras ,traditional waist coats and turbans and women dancers wore colorful punjabi suits.The only musical instument I can remember was Drums and snakes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.186.237.62 (talk) 21:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

seperate bhangra dance page and bhangra music page needed

seems their is quite a bit of confusion about bhangra dance (teams) vs bhangra music (bands)

two seperate entries are needed for these two things. Perhaps one for punjabi folk (singers) as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxiousnews (talk • contribs) 07:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Also, what's the problem with the neutrality tags -- just what makes the article not neutral? AkankshaG 17:51, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

South Asia?

Why is this term being used? Most Indians, Pakistanis, Afghans, don't refer to themselves as South Asian. 71.105.87.54 (talk) 21:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Religious Bias?

It's a sectarian bias by stating that Bhangra is an entirely Sikh dance. Though Sikhs may have had an important role in preserving & making certain forms of Bhangra styles popular in the West, more traditional (folk) forms of bhangra and dhamaal, as well as the modern variants are enjoyed and performed all over by Pakistani Punjabis (Muslims). Even at UK concerts more than half of the crowd as well as many young musicans are of Pakistani Punjabi origin (nowadays called a "Desi" crowd). Bhangra was traditionally danced at Vaisakhi by all the Punjabi religious groups (except maybe the ultra orthodox).Though there is a "Muic of Pakistan template" the article itself makes no further reference to Bhangra in Pakistan at all. Even at Pakistani films from the 60's and 70's one could see the same Bhangra atire used at Pakistani Mele's, the turban (not Sikh turban), the chaddar, the waistcoat and khameez, the intruments and singing styles as can be seen in the old film song: Balle Balle Mele Vich Kharack by Noor Jehan and many others.The same style of singing, the same "so called" modern Dhol grooves, complete with Dhad and all. Bhangra styles are most probably much older then the formation of the Sikh faith (which has btw strongly been influenced by Punjabi Sufism) and are simply harvest festival songs and dances. Punjab has always been a melting pot of cultures and Bhangra is just one expression of it's farming culture.It's not good for Bhangra to let religious hatred, bias and communalism enter the music or you may publish your Bhangra music through the RSS propaganda distribution system alltogether.Because this is what these trolls want.I understand that many young Sikhs strongly self identify with Bhangra music, but so do others.Chapatti is also not a Sikh invention, though you'll eat it every day, so do others.95.223.187.171 (talk) 08:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Split

This article has a heavy 'Western' bias -- it focuses on Bhangra as "a form of Western music, developed in Britain in the 1980s". There is little focus on the original Bhangra dance of Punjab, India. I suggest this article be split into Bhangra (folk dance) and Bhangra (Western music). utcursch | talk 09:01, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

agreed, this article needs to be split into bhangra music and bhangra dance (a folk dance). I for one would also recommend a seperate article for punjabi folk singers where the jazzy bees and harbhajan manns along with the countless pendu folk singers can be thrown in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxiousnews (talk • contribs) 01:03, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it must be split. Too much random stuff that confuses dance and music genres. The connections can be summarized by: 1. Music genre takes its name from the dance; 2. Sometimes, mainly in Western contexts, dance is performed to the pop music genre. Otherwise, most of the stuff being said does not go for both phenomena, and must be distinguished. I've sorted the existing writing on this page so that all the dance-related stuff is together (except for what's in the lead section). That can all be copied over to a Bhangra (dance) page. I recommend that title (rather than "Bhangra (folk dance)") because "folk" is POV and limits what can be talked about. Keep it open. Also, I recommend the music page should not say "Western" because, though I get what is meant, that also limits it. It is now global music--don't limit it. But then "Bhangra (music)", while pretty acceptable, is potentially confusing because people may think it refers to the musical accompaniment to the dance (dhol, boliyaan, etc). Therefore I recommend "Bhangra (popular music)", which clearly indicates the well defined category popular music. The commercial Punjabi "folk singers", incidentally, already have a place to go: Music of Punjab (which should also eventually contain a link over to the Bhangra music page). DrBaldhead (talk) 04:33, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I've taken the initiative and created a page of Bhangra (dance) to split this. All dance-related info is shifted to there. I am going to, therefore, delete all the dance stuff from this page, which for the moment remains the de facto MUSIC page.DrBaldhead (talk) 18:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

OK, now I've moved/renamed this as a music page. I don't think a disambiguation page is necessary, since there are just two articles. The "hatnotes" at the top of the articles should be enough to disambiguate, but anyone can make a disambiguation page if you think it's necessary.DrBaldhead (talk) 00:13, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

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transliteration

• What is the Romanization for Gurmukhi ਭੰਗੜਾ ? Also, why was the Devanagari transliteration removed? I went into the revision history, and it was listed as भांगड़ा - bhāṅgaṛā (IAST) but seems to have been removed at some point. Is bhāṅgṛā a correct transliteration for Gurmukhi? Nikki (talk) 10:10, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

The Romanization of Gurmukhi is as it appears: bhaṅgṛā. The same would go for Nastaliq, though the homo-organic "n" would not necessarily be attended to with any diacritical. I don't see why there would need to be a Devanagari. First, that is a different pronunciation. Second, it is a Punjabi phenomenon, so we use Punjabi scripts and pronunciations.DrBaldhead (talk) 16:10, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Move it if okay

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. This is the first article retitling I've ever seen that got the right result from pure serendipity.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:25, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

---

Bhangra (music) → Bhangra (popular music) – Hello, admin(s). This article was first titled, Bhangra (popular music) but I moved it to current title, "Bhangra (music)" taking the word popular spoiling neutrality as I read that calling/stating something/someone popular, great, very good spoils neutrality but someone notify me that word popular here not used to call that the music that is popular (praise or stating), actually popular music is a kind of music. So I want it to be moved back to Bhangra (popular music) or Bhangra (Popular music) whatever is right. TariButtar (talk) 11:20, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose Generally, we try to keep disambiguation as short as possible. Unless there are two kinds of music which are both called Bhangra (one of which is popular music and the other some different genre), then the best title is the shortest. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 16:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. "Music" is all we need as a disambiguator. The move may have been for the wrong reasons, but it produced the right result. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose, came to same conclusions as P.T.Aufrette and Necrothesp.--Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎 17:39, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

capitalization: Bhangra or bhangra?

Article mostly has this music genre as Bhangra (and four lower-case "bhangra"). Wondering if the "Bhangra" not at the start of a sentence should be changed to "bhangra". Examples of lower-case bhangra are 1) Wikipedia also has List of bhangra artists 2) http://www.bhangra.org/about/ says "bhangra".
Most of other music genres seem to be all lowercase (examples: a cappella, acid house, acid jazz, benga, etc) with upper-case letters being used only when there is a proper name (country name etc) such as Afro-Cuban jazz. --EarthFurst (talk) 20:54, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

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Deleted tanpura lady

The very annoying painting of lady playing sitar who had nothing to do with bhangra was deleted. Anyways indias never made any bhangra music so why classify it as indian genre. They can claim punjabi folk Noxiousnews (talk) 07:03, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

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