Talk:George Hudson

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Railway adoption in England long after introduction into America!

The last sentence of this article reads:

..., he succeeded in overcoming the powerful landed interest which delayed the adoption of railways in England long after the date of their regular introduction into America.

Eh. That is certainly contrary to everything I've always understood. Most of Hudson's lines were built in the mid 1840s, by which time railways had most certainly been 'adopted' in England. I've never before heard anybody suggest that America had a significant railway network before that date, and hence some 20+ years before the outbreak of the American Civil War. Can somebody provide a source for this radical new interpretation of received railway history?. -- Chris j wood 12:50, 28 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Further checking reveals that text does in fact come from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica. I have to say I'm still very dubious. I will dig further into US railway history; unfortunately the article Rail transport in the United States doesn't help much, as it quotes the odd isolated line from the 1820s and 1830s that would not have been untypical in the UK at the same time, then jumps straight to 2003. -- Chris j wood 13:02, 28 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article First Transcontinental Railroad, the first transcontinental railway in the United States was not completed until 1869, which is some ten to twenty years after the UK railway network was substantially complete. So I reckon this quote just shows that even the Encyclopedia Britannica can get it wrong, or at least allow its editors POV to show through. I will edit the article to remove the POV. -- Chris j wood 22:25, 28 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the transcontinental railroad makes your point, since this project went way beyond anything that was even necessary in England. You need to get data on a scale in the United States comparable to England, like what was happening on the East Coast and how connected towns were. How was rail connectivity in the environs of the big cities in the United States proceeding compared to the U.K.? Britannica can get it wrong, but nothing has demonstrated this yet. So I have restored 1911's analysis. I may look into what some other encyclopedias say. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 18:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The statue of Leeman near the railway station was intended to be of Hudson until the scandal broke. Then a new head was ordered before it was put up. Geo. Hudson Street was Railway Street until fairly recently. I suppose the council thought that it would be good for tourism to re-name it after a well known local swindler. There is another Hudson Street in York, probably no connection. The building was always referred to as 'the Railway Offices' whatever it may have been called.(source..ask any native over 30 years old or search the Yorkshire Evening Press)

Although there was a public subscription for a statue of Hudson it was never built after his fall from grace and the council voted for the statue of Leeman instead. I can find no evidence that the statue was started and then Leeman's head was put on - given he was alive and wealthy I doubt very much he would have agreed to such a move. Hudson Street was the original name of Railway Street so when it became George Hudson this was a reversion rather than a renaming.--Davidvaughanwells (talk) 11:59, 6 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite underway

I am in the process of re-writing this page - please be patient as there are gaps that will be filled.--Davidvaughanwells (talk) 21:38, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You can put Template:Under construction at the top if you feel the need - though it's generally unneccessary.

Have you got a Tomlinson's NER? (William Weaver Tomlinson) - you can read it online or download it via https://archive.org/details/northeasternrail00tomlrich (press the all files https button for downloads eg [1] - and then use "save as" to get the file - the pdf is good, though some prefer the djvu files if you have the software for it. It has an overwhelming amount of business history on the predecessors of the NER, and a lot on Hudson.

The Y&NMR investigation in the the accounts after Hudson's downfall is also available online http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Oef_QAJj6uUC - it is mostly financial accounts. Prof.Haddock (talk) 21:58, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Prof I'll check some of these out - a fascinating character my aim is to get a better entry in over the next few weeks and then add to it. any help gratefully received.--Davidvaughanwells (talk) 22:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting metaphoric phrase

I am deleting the dramatic phrase "and left to rot" from the end of the sentence relating to his remand in York Prison. Hudson would have been awaiting trial if he was on remand; it would not have been the end of the legal actions against him.Cloptonson (talk) 19:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure your point is correct here? I think at this time if you were imprisoned for debt that was it until someone either paid up or you died. I am no legal expert but the act referred to later on in that article changed the law so that debtors did not have to flee the country or face imprisonment. There and then I have no strong views on the "left to rot" phrase being deleted.--Davidvaughanwells (talk) 10:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Defence

"In his defence he never named any of his co-conspirators although many of them turned their backs on him when the bubble burst."

How is this a defence? 108.180.71.196 (talk) 04:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It would have been easy for Hudson to take down a lot of people with him - for instance David Waddington at the Eastern Counties Railway whose dealings were every bit as shady as Hudson's. He chose not to so whilst not exonerating him for his own misdemeanors he did not bring others down. --Davidvaughanwells (talk) 16:57, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Reference detail

There are various short form references to "Bailey 1995" but no full details for them to link to. Any one know the details that can be added to the article? Keith D (talk) 18:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The family tree

I am one of many of his great grandchildren one of his sons did survive long enough to have a son and that son provided the family tree to be bigger than ever so the Hudson's will never die and I am proud to be called a Hudson Gypsy 97 (talk) 19:10, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. Did you manage to go to the play about his life put on at the National Railway Museum a few years back?--Davidvaughanwells (talk) 23:02, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bastardry?

The Early life section reads '...there was also a payment of 12 shillings and 6 pence recorded in the Howsham poor book as being "received of George Hudson for bastardry".' What does the word bastardry mean in this context? The only meaning I can find is that it's Australian slang for a contemptuous act, which I don't think applies to Victorian Yorkshire. 87.75.117.183 (talk) 02:21, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Does it mean he was paying towards an illegitimate chid? Does this help? https://www.wiltshire-opc.org.uk/Items/Wroughton/Wroughton%20-%20Bastardy%20Payment%20Rules%20Under%20Poor%20Law.pdf [[User:Chevin} 07:17, 26 July 2022 (UTC)~